Looks like I might be the only person in the world who didn’t watch the entire segment of Mary Winkler talking to Oprah this week, though I did see a few minutes of the broadcast. Mary seemed pretty similar to what we’ve seen of her before — faraway, timid — though I was quite surprised to hear her say that “seven years into the marriage” she talked to Matthew about divorce, although nothing ever came of it. The real buzz this week, though, is what Meredith asked Steve Farese on The Today Show yesterday — should she get her kids back?
When I wrote about abuse that ends in murder while the trial was going on, Debbie Knapp, the Memphis woman who was given a reprieve for her life sentence after murdering her abusive husband, told me much more than I could have imagined about what living in an abusive marriage was like. Many of you chimed in, sometimes anonymously. Debbie’s last words to me still ring in my ears: “She should get those girls back,” she told me.
So, what do you think?
Update, Sept. 18: A new bit of scoop, courtesy of the Jackson Sun. Does this change anyone’s mind?
Responses to “Should Mary Winkler get her kids back?”
September 17th, 2007 at 7:35 am
She is unstable enough to shoot someone unintentionally. That ability to lose control makes her not mentally fit to have the children unsupervised. Her lack of awareness of her inability to not lose control makes unfit to be with them unattended. She should get custody of the children, with a full time supervisor for a few months which she should be requesting. Someone to watch her interacting with the children all day and night to assess her stability and monitor their development. If mistrust impedes effective attachment behavior, they would be better off elsewhere. I think that is probably all ready happening and she can’t comprehend that. I think not trying to reunite them will be worse because they would not get a realistic understanding of each other which would result in emotional dysregulation. They should face it now and find out if the children can trust her while being supervised to make sure she can be trusted. The problems she had with facing reality before are going to prevent her from understanding their feelings and ultimately it will fail. But I think not putting them back together at all would result in complex post-traumatic stress disorder which would be worse.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:00 am
I am 80 years old and have beeen in and out of churches all of my life.I have known several cases of child rape and abuses of children and spousal abuse by preachers. Just because a person is a-preacher doesn’t mean he is any better than the man on the street. Why hasn’t the Winkler grandparents been investgated. I know they are not the godly saints they pretend to be. I do not know the Winklers or anyone invovled and have never lived in Tenn.
September 18th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
I am from Nashville Tennessee and attended Lipscomb University when Mary was attending. She was known as crazy even then 16 years ago. I indirectly know the Winklers’ and the reason they have the girls is because Mary requested them to get the girls. If Matt was abusive to her, the last people she would want to have her children is the Winklers’, think about that. Why not her own parents? She had a sister that died mysteriously a year before she started at Lipscomb and her parents refused to allow conselors to help her. I think Mary had something to do with her death also. She has also changed her story multiple times. I have been an abused spouse and she was never abused. In reference to the child custody case, her children are terrified of her and do not want to be with her, especially the older two. The children are getting the proper help they need and have told counselors daddy never hurt mommy.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Who are these whack-os posting on this subject? Mighty strong claims by this Celeste person! How come she knows SO much about things that would ordinarily be privileged information, such as what the children allegedly told counselors. Rubbish!
September 20th, 2007 at 4:54 am
I believe Mary Winkler.
Her original, taped confession, that is, in which she talks about how she braced herself for the recoil of the gun before firing it, and how her husband never physically abused her or the children.
I don’t believe the story she came up with later after consulting with lawyers, that contradicts everything she said previously.
In any case, it’s not fair to the girls to ask them to spend time with the murderer of their father. And she clearly did not have their best interests in mind when she killed him.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
I’m all for Mary Winkler having supervised visitation with her children…crazy or not, she is their mother…but I don’t believe she should have full custody of the girls. She has very questionable judgment, is prone to lying and clearly doesn’t handle any level of stress well.
I was married to an emotionally abusive man and dated, for a long year, a man prone to physical and emotional abuse. Strangely enough, I didn’t shoot either one of them in the back, as they slept, with a shotgun that mysteriously appeared in my hands and fired itself out of the blue. Everyone has options.
September 22nd, 2007 at 6:38 pm
I think Mary should get her girls back she really cared for the girls and put them in a good home with a good family until she could get all this mess straightened out and now that she has done that she is ready to live with her girls.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
I’m sorry and I don’t care if you all ‘throw me under the bus’ for my opinion but here it is. I think she should get her children back. Sure, she killed her husband while he slept, but the fact remains that she IS their mother and I truly believe that she can raise them to be mentally healthy and stable young women. There is something about being a mother of girls….for those of you who don’t have girls…you will never understand this. The bond between a mother and daughter is unbreakable. We’ve all read stories,books, seen movies of how girls had terrible lives growing up whether they were mentally or physically abused (neither of which happened to the Winkler children) and in the end they still forgave their MOTHER for everything that happened. Take the same cases where children were abused by their father and they never forgave him. They may forget, but they will never forgive him.
In a nutshell….a mother’s bond is UNBREAKABLE. The Winkler children are very young now. They will need some counseling so that when they grow into their teenage years….and we all know teenage girls can be a handful….they will be able to handle everything else teenage girls deal with in today’s society.
So yes!!! I think mary Winkler should eventually get full custody of her children. I also agree with the poster that said that Matthew Winkler’s parents need investigating. Abuse is usually learned behavior. Matthew Winkler was probably abused at some point in his childhood.
October 10th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Allie is a nut case if she thinks Mary is a good mother and was abused. There is no justification for shooting your husband in the back. SHE WAS NOT ABUSED. I know the families in this case that’s how I know what is going on in this case. A friend of my mother’s also knows Mary and said that you never disagree with Mary because she was known as “mean Mary” and you never knew what she was going to do. Also her girls are having nightmares from the day Matt was killed.These are not claims they are facts.Her 8 year old sister drowned in a bath tub and Matt’s parents did not know until after his death, because her death is now being investigated. Please don’t tell me someone like this should raise children.
October 10th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
What do muderers do? They lie to cover up their crime. Think about people. Mary has been mentally ill for atleast 16 years by her own attorneys words. What does that say about the peaple that believe her lies and think she can raise three little girls that she has already scarred for life. Her daughters do not want to be with her. they are afraid of her and they said their “daddy” never hurt their “mommy”. One of the elders at the church I attend, which is where they used to attend witnessed Mary abusing the children in church. Everyone that knew them says that Matt was the loving parent not Mary. I heard this from church members, I am not making this up off the top of my head. Again, I know the families and people involved in this horrible situation.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:15 am
Yo celeste, reread my post, you missed the whole point. I said I believed her ORIGINAL CONFESSION in which she stated SHE WAS NOT ABUSED. In other words, I agree with everything you just said, and you should really read things more thoroughly before calling someone a nutcase.
September 15th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
The reality of this case is that the truth will never be known. Mary Winkler leaves many doubts when questioned about the events of her marriage and abuse…Is this hesitation in answering questions a result of the abuse or simply trying to remember what she is supposed to say? Of course, we will never hear Matthew Winkler’s side of the story. As the mother of a former victim, I would hate to see this become a convenient defense for women when the real victims need more help from the legal system in being tough on abusers.
Then you have the elder Winklers. If Matthew Winkler was indeed abusive to Mary, where did he learn that? Most of the time abusers are the children of abusers. Do you want these three little girls raised by the same parents who raised Matthew?
I believe Mary loves her children and is probably a good mother to them, but she definitely appears to be far from stable and mentally healthy. Do you want these three little girls raised by a mother whose first attempt to solve a problem was with a shotgun?
Have you thought about the people in these abusive situations who do leave and try to do things the way the court orders. They then have to send their small, innocent children alone for visitation with the abusive spouse. The court’s justification for this is “He/she has never done anything to the children.” There is always a first time. How fair is that?
Children of abusive parents are victims no matter how it turns out. The court must make its decision on custody based on the best information they have but it is sad to know the court never knows 100% of the truth.